Subject: Questions & Answers

Yes, opponent, although....perhaps yes.

Well thats why I asked vlady where do draw the line, just by comparison with some 1.1 leagues;
Sweden have 1 teams with more than 15 on vl
Serbia have 13 teams with more then 15 on vl
Canada have 12 teams with more then 15 on vl
Portugal have 4teams with more then 15 on vl
Romania have 8teams with more then 15 on vl
Polen 4 teams
Croatia 2 teams
Bulgaria 10
Brazil 7
Slovakia 2

A wide spread and my question is still, where is the line drawn? Vlady said it is not OK to have any kind of an agreement in the leagues but the stats say this is occuring.. So how to respond to this? If these numbers are ok, I dont see no reason for us to do the same in slovakia/sweden/croatia as many other leagues already done

The relevant thing there, in my opinion, is the number of VL vs VL in each league... because if the VL is played against a N... I don't see where is the possible agreement there.. it's just a valid option everyone can do..

Other questions are... how many of those VL are just 2nd half VL due to the result of the 1st half... how many of those VL are against bot teams... etc

Indeed. Full VL x VL games should be the indicator.

Specially for the 2nd round of the double round robin table.

You are not right.
You said that in Romania there are 8 teams with more than 15 matches on very low. Mate, first of all, in statistic pages it is displayed the number of periods and not the number of games. Now question, how many teams played in second half on very low, after they were leading with 2-3 goals difference ?

These numbers don't prove anything. Unless you provide a proof, there is no reason to talk about this.

Yes, it should be an indicator. But still it would be no proof.
In some of the leagues soderb posted there definitely are dubious games and teams with many VL vs. VL. The devs should watch closely (which they probably do anyway), but there is not much else one can do.
Could all just be coincidence. And you can't and shouldn't punish someone based purely on suspicion and coincidence.

Im saying it is definatly a big difference in the leagues of the use of energy, It must be easier for you to look into the internal database then me looking trough every game manually.

Ciukitu, then change it to periods. There is still the same big difference. If its okey then I dont see any reason we start doing the same in sweden, afterall we can raise our VL quota very much from where it is now

There were 36 games until now, that means 72 periods.
15 periods (from 72) seems many ? I doubt about this.

By the way, check same statistics in hockey.

Yes indeed. Indicators are just that: evidences, not proofs. One should be careful before taking conclusions.

IMO Soderb is juts trying to discuss the issue and clear some points. I believe every debate, if we can be wise enough to take the arguments in a non personal way, opens room for the benefit of all users.

I believe we should stress the discussed matter on the rules.

start doing what exactly? playing on very low or agreeing on playing on very low? There's a big difference there.

Forget about the stats here. We cannot punish anyone based on stats.

Mate, every action you make has a consequence.
I mean, if I, for example, I start playing on very low, it is possible that other managers do that too (I repeat: it's just a possibility).
Maybe that's why in some leagues, there are more teams that are playing on very low.

Now, as I said above, every action you make has a consequence. If playing on very low, and other users don't, then you can reach a low place in your division (as I did).


There are a lot of reasons for a team to play on very low:
- training camps
- no chance on winning the championship and save energy for League Cup
- half time results
and so on.

Right, these things should be discussed. But I think it's very hard to make definite decisions in this matter.
As Ciukutu wrote, there are lots of reasons why one could play on very low. And it's true that one VL can lead to another.
On the other hand there are cases and leagues where teams quite often play VL vs. VL without obvious reasons on both sides - and the next match they don't. Still, not enough to do anything.
The officials need to watch closely (which could be something that comes out of soderbs discussion), but there is not much else what can be done.
Quite personally I have to say that such agreements are generally against the spirit of the (or any) game.

I agree with all you said and think the same way.