Subject: Questions & Answers

Excuse me, you're missing my point here.
I'm not questioning that it might be a good tactics using 12 starting players, and I'm not whining about people using it. As I wrote above, within this game engine it makes perfect sense to use it. If I had the players I would probably do it, too. As it is, I have some specialists and usually change three of six players.

Yet, my point is, this makes NO sense at all. Ever seen a handball match? You would get screwed if you'd change all six players each time, regardless if your opponent goes for fast breaks or not.
And although this is just a game and can't be realistic in all respects, fantasy line-ups are definitely a vital point.
Also I think playing experience could be more interesting if there would be some kind of penalty. People would have to think more about which players they use and how they train and what tactics they play. (And I know playing Fast transitions kind of does this at the moment, but its very minor.)

Also, I don't think the argument 'I trained my players like that, so they can't change it.' is not a real good one. In every new game things have to changed at some point, to make it smoother or amend for errors. In football they at one point penalized weird but effective line-ups (like playing 10 defenders or so). And they changed the way Keeper ratings where calculated, so many of them had to be re-trained after some time.
And btw, Vlady said at the beginning of handball, the fact that you can substitute all players without penalty could at some point be changed. And on this page he used the word 'currently'. For me, I always was aware of the possibility they will set this straight. And I still hope they will do it.

But you and BJ might have a point here. If they think about changing it, they should do it asap. Otherwise the gaps will be too high. And they should tell people some time before. When the national teams come along without any announcement and specialist players are heavily called, I guess it is too late.

I know, that vlady said "currently". I just say, that I am against change in future... I think that tactics are good balanced now, even if they are not totally realistic. You can play 2 formations, that give you advantage in shooting/blocking but you have also disadvantages. You need more players, more money for wages, more money for buying players, then you have less money for facilities and arena, players gain half experience in match etc... Penalising one of only two advantages of 2 formations strategy will break the balance and reduce tactical posibilities.

And as far as I know, when the keepers rating changed, it had no influence on training ratio. Keepers in hockey have one less skill than other players, so their ability to save grew faster than ability of forwarders to score.

Tactics are currently good balanced now for you because you have followed that strategy with two teams,
If PPM wants to make a simulator as realistic as possible, it should be change.

I totally have to agree.

If this point will be maintained in the future of the game should be clear to adapt the teams.

Yes indeed, mantained or changed, we should be informed asap.
This point influences building players strategy a lot.

I'm talking about football keepers, not hockey. There they changed the calculation to take free kicks and other situations into account, and heading became for example more important. It is not the same situation as it is here, but still player training had to be adjusted after football was on for some seasons.

And I don't understand why penalizing too many substitutions would break the game balance - a new balance would just be established, which could make the game more interesting and sound.
Nobody says that no player should be substituted at all, so you still can play two formations, just not two totally different ones. Or maybe you can, just with a disadvantage (equalling the advantage of having nearly always players with the right skill on the pitch). And of course playing 12+2 starters hinges your ability to use the strategical advantage of different formations (since there is no room in your 14 men squad for changes).
So I don't think this would actually limit the possibilities, rather the opposite.

And it's just not true that in principle your strategy is more expensive than others. Because of energy and other considerations people using say 8+2 starters need additional players to compete with the 12+2 guys in the long run.
And of course some of the universal players one needs will be more expensive, having good qualities in throwing and blocking. Its not as easy as you make it sound.

But again, I have to repeat it, above all it's plain weird to be successful in handball with playing 12+2. It's as if you would be successful in football by playing 10 defenders - which was possible at the beginning of the sport. Then they changed it.

But if hockey and football try to fit as much as possible to reality here should do the same and this point is very far.

No, tactics are now balanced good for everybody, because even 6+2 even 12+2 have their pro and contra.
And it is your decision, that you followed another strategy. On the beginning we both have had the same informations.

Ok, I wrote my opinion. You and me will probably never come to agreement. Hope, that developers are reading this and know, that here are also managers, that are satisfied with current status.

Yes, and part of the information was: "Maybe we will change it in the future."

In the begining i train my players universal, throwing and blocking, but now i try make 2 line ups to atack and defend, if system will be changed it will be huge damage to managers like me and spike, this mistake was made in past and if they thix it lot of pleyers will be disapointed by that, bicouse then you have beter teams then us...

Well, I couldn't edit my previous post anymore, so the second part of my answer comes here:

And, as tried to argue above, I don't think the cons of 12+2 cancel the pros. For a non-realistic approach it can be too successful I think.

But yes, we have exchanged the arguments now, so lets wait for something from the important people.

I do not want to evaluate possible tactical options of your choice and what each coach have chosen.
I'm just saying that this game is a simulator and as it says in the information "about the game" in home page are a "realistic game simulators". In this point change of all players on offense and defense no resemblance to the real handball. It can be done (in real handball too) but no team is doing

If you had the possibility to make the same changes to your football teams would have different defense and attack? That's my point of view