Subject: Questions & Answers

albnumant, you have universal players i think, so you whana change rules, but how illesnille sed it is big diference betwen pleyers in atack and defens it is abaout 30 points and grow it up it is not so easy, + dismember situation, lot of managers bought players for one position and it is great now, but if it will be changed they lose money end have lot of players who will be useless, in my opinion to makegame more realistik it is good thing, but it has lot of disatvanteges by lot of players...

You have chosen that option, mine was to invest in facilities in which this matter was clarified. If no changes will be at a disadvantage against teams like yours that has been specializing attack and defense more time, but I will accept it.

I wish they would change, yes, but to make it more real. But mostly what I really want is to remove the doubt to choose the good strategy for my team.

There are more things that not matched up with reality, but playing nonstop 60 minutes it seems to me just as strange as the mass substitution.

Last try, and last post from me on this topic. (Promised! I'm really getting annoyed by the fact that for days now the same points pop up over and over again. I'm even getting annoyed by myself... )

So, like I pointed out several times now, they should not wait with a decision until things move in some direction or another. Because the more time passes the harder it will be to turn the ship.

And, there are other solutions than restricting the number of changes. This would also not be possible because it would counteract with the possibility of having different formations in defense and offense with different conditions.
So now, I try something constructive again - this would be my idea of a more sound engine:

First, changes in line-ups should be penalty-less when the play was stopped - the engine could take all the situations when there is a card given, a 2 minute penalty or a 7m throw.
In all other cases of changing ball possession some performance penalty (for the next attack only) should be imposed on a team substituting too many players (also probably counting formation change).
A number allowed could be 2 or 3, but above that a small penalty could be used for 4 players, a bigger one for 5 and 6.
Or alternatively, exchanging too many players as the defending team could raise the chances of a fast break, which in any case should be a disadvantage for them.

The imposed penalties need not be too high (at least initially for three/four), so that people can think about their strategy, how many specialists or universalists they use. Additionally, these things should be supported by tactical decisions, for example if one or both teams use Slow transition the penalty could be considerably less.

It's not about forbidding something or disallowing specialists, it's about making the game more interesting and sound.
One thing that has not been mentioned is that you basically can't use the whole formations thing if you use 12+2 starters (no room left for changes in the squad). In my point of view, 12+2 is not only unrealistic but also boring.
(Btw, if people would need at least some universalists, they would train them, even if that means 50/50 or 60/60 instead of 100/0. So again, more interesting decisions would have to be taken by the managers...)

That would be my personal idea how things could be improved, in a way that both 'sides' could live with I think. I really hope PPM will do something like this (although it may take time to edit and balance the engine). Because at the moment I'm somehow in doubt about playing a handball manager that's so not-handball in a vital point: the line-up.

Wasn't this sort of thing meant to have been fixed in Beta of the sport? Changing now is quite annoying.

If you had read his posts than you would see that he just wants a realistic engine. He and a lot other managers trained the most players universal because it is not handball anymore if you chance complete and play with a defense and an offense line. If they decide to keep the wrong engine this way all will adapt tp it, all will play with two lines and we all will play a game that isnt handball.
If they would penalize little for chancing 1 player more than 2 or maybe 3 up to a big penalty for chancing all players that would be more realistic. So in the end all would have some universal and some specialists in their teams

But then we have another problem if we want to keep it "realistic". Would you in real handball get penalized for not playing all the same 7 players all the game. You would probably not, quite the opposit.

I think most teams in real handball got at least 2-3 players that are specialised for defence and 2-3 that are specialised for offence. If you would take away all that from the game you would make it less realistic.

Another thing you should look at is the energy. You would never play the same 6 players all the game in real handball because they would get to tired in the end of the match. You maybee have one player that plays all the game.

But I think the idea with changing all the players at the same time is unrealistic like you say, but I don't think it is unrealistic to have 14 different players in a game.

I would give another point: Maybe it's unrealistic, but this is a manager game and so you get a really nice other possibilty to manage your team. I'm not sure, that playing with 14 players is a better solution: You gain less experience and chemistry, you have to pay more salary, ..

It should depend on tactical options, what the better choice is..

You are right. Thats why i said penalty for more changes than 2 or 3 players. Every team has their specialists. And look at my last sentence, there i mentioned a mix between universal players and specialists because i see it the same way. And nobody says it unrealistic to have 14 players. Even if you would play with only universal players you would need 14 players because of energy. So this argument that with two lines you have more salary, less experience and less chemistry i cant agree. I would wish that the developers would get it somewhere in the middle because that would be handball

Ahh, read your sentance wrong, but agree with 2 or 3 specialists would be fine.

The problem I see whit the 2-3 especialist thing is that to make it realistic the 2-3 defensive especialist must enter the game in different positions. For example a defensive specialist for the backcourt should give rest to two or three backcourt players. It has no sense from a realistic prespetive to have a sub for example for the center backcour and at the same time have the rght backcourt playing the whole game. The subs tend to give rest different players and is not usual to play the whole game. So the game should allow to use 2-3 subs at the same time but giving rest the 6 starters whit that subs.

In real handball they change 2 or 3 (actually they are 1 or 2) players and they receive penalties for doing that, but penalty is not so big, so they prefer to change those players. Doing 2 changes makes you have 2 players who are not thinking about the ball but running out of field, that's never good. They also have to run a bigger distance, so they take more time to get to their positions, that's also never good.

No team changes 4 players, so penalty for doing that should be close to 100%.

I think penalties should be really small for changing 1 player, so it's useful for almost every team.
They should be not so big for changing 2 players, so changing 2 players can be useful if you have 4 very good specialists (2 attackers, 2 defenders).
They should be big for changing 3 players, but maybe it can be useful if you have 6 reaaaaaally good specialists who suck at one side of the field.
If you change 4 players there is no way you can win a match.

That's the way it works in real handball.

This is my last comment-suggestion on the topic, I think I've said everything I had to say and the rest is spin on the same topic.

If the simulator (engine) would simulate reality fine in this question, you can change all the players you like, but that must have consequences.

If you make 6 changes on every attack and defense understand that means that you you're going to specialize attack and defense (if not it loses all logic and we all go to the madhouse ), then:
First, you could not make fastbreaks because while you do changes the opponent has enough time to put their players in a defensive position, which should be penalized. But if you make the fastbreaks without changing players like now, then you would be penalized by your specialization since your defenses should have focus on the roof, not on the goal, is to say, the percentage of correct throws should be much lower.
Second, the opponent should have a clear advantage doing fastbreaks because if a team sees that while attacking the opponent going to make changes, the reality is that the opponent re-launch fastbreak. But if engine do not change the players while your opponent is doing a fastbreak the defense would be ridiculous for their specialization.

Leaving aside the reality, I find it logical and it is my opinion.

And related to this what is the penalti for using only 7 players in a game? thing that is totally unrealistic too.