Asunto: General Talk

I still disagree with you.

I don't know about you, but by the middle of season 2 in handball, i didn't have a single player from my starting roster playing in games. Players from my SA had pretty much taken over and I had a roster of largely 15-16 year olds.

That won't happen in basketball. You won't get 15 year old players that are good enough to start right away.

For instance, my first SA pull was 165 OR. That's just over HALF of what my best player is (at 309 OR). While I'm quite happy with the pull (his AQ is the 2nd highest on my team), I have no illusions about how long it'll take for him to "matter."

Even as we level up our training and SA facilities, you won't be getting really any help from these youngsters until season THREE or so.

Basically, you can't successfully follow the same model that you used in handball, because (frankly) the game mechanisms are different than they were in handball.

I mean consider this:

I just recently sold one of the highest OR players from my handball team's initial roster.

We're in the 4th season of handball, and look at his OR. Randall Brown . 277 OR. After over 3 seasons of training.

I have 4 guys on my basketball roster that already have more than 277 OR.

This was something they discussed doing, and it's a change that they made with the basketball rollout. The initial roster players have significantly higher OR than they would in the past (so they actually matter somewhat).

Mark it. Teams that think they can sell their whole roster for early money (not talking about you here, just talking in general) will be hurting for several seasons as they realize that it's near impossible to replace the guys they give up.

You're ignoring the factor of starting in a lower league. It's huge. In handball my team wasn't good at all till season 3. I was still using players we got in the beginning during season 3. The fact is that I could completely sell my top 5 players and still finish top 4. Which is what I relied on during handball. Throw all my money into facilities first few years then arena. So basically what I'm saying is no matter what I do with my players right now due to the horrible competition on IV I'll be promoting by next year. Which was the case in handball. All in all I'm not relying on SA pulls. So I can follow the same model

I disagree with lanky in one point: every penny matters in the start as one can steady use it to continue to build facilities.

that is how i managed to be "way" ahead of others in handball that allowed me to stop building facilities for a while to build arena and not to be far behind in facilities.

backup? use the "crap" player from sport academy. may not be great yet but at least will gain experience while backing up an injured player

in 10 days people will be able to sell all their players if they want to. There will be tons of players in the market so even though people will have more money they will also have more market competition.

and .. who cares about paying more fees ? it wont stop people from selling crap players and save to sell great young prospects next season when people can once again sell 3 at no extra fee.

it should stop from managers to buy and sell the same players in 52 days for profit but wont stop for selling crap players.

I started in IV in handball. And I'm starting in IV in basketball. You're not in my league, but I think it's foolish to consider your competition automatically worse just because you're starting in a lower league.

For instance, in handball this year (in season 4), there's 3 teams (including my own) in division II.1 that started in my starting division IV.4 in season 1. So 3 teams in the second best division in the sport all started in a single division of IV.

While there is something to be said for winning games and building in a lower division, I think that the best way to success is to do the best at whatever level your team can compete in.

Compare your handball team to mine for instance. I've spent more than you on facilities and arena (likely because I've had more income over the same period of time). The only difference is that I've advanced to division II while you're still in III. Looking at your team, it's probably good enough to be in division II, so while you might be getting "easy draftees" in the lower division, you're really just stunting your team's growth the longer you stay down there.

Basketball will be similar. The avenue to success is winning as much as you can and advancing out of the lower divisions when your team is able to compete at the higher level. I personally think that having more, better players would help you do this more than having 2 million dollars more on day 1 of the first season.

But I guess that's just a personal perspective.

2 million can build level 3 and 4 of training OR 3,4 and 5 of SA.

It is huge considering it takes very few days to build them.

I disagree.

1)
2 million is a drop in the bucket. Seriously. What's really the impact of having a facility 1 or 2 levels ahead of someone else in the FIRST season? Shitty training instead of REALLY shitty training? Shitty scouting instead of REALLY shitty scouting?

The "construction days behind" factor could be argued, but seriously, in the first season you're talking a matter of days.

Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely frugal when it comes to these games... but I just think that using the "every penny counts" support for selling a top 6 guy in the first season is bogus.

Careful, thoughtful use of the ticket prices feature through the course of season 1 can likely make up most of what other teams might make from selling players in the first few days.

2)
We aren't talking about a normal "backup" here. We're talking about a guy that's over 280 OR, and will likely play every game as a substitution (when the starters get tired or get into foul trouble).

You put a 160-170 OR 15 year old in that role, and you will lose games. period.

3)
The fee goes up to 75% of the player's sale value. 75%!!!

So if you sell a guy for 10 million, you only get 2.5million for him.

Even if you only sell 6 players in a season, that 6th player sale will cost you 20% in fees. That's insane. If you don't think that quickly rising fees will factor into how people sell players on the market, you're crazy imo.

4)
The best way to make money in the first season is to win your league and get the "large" advancement bonus (especially if you're starting in IV). Unless you don't think you'll advance, or unless you think you can do it with a couple less good players... I just see no reason to sell players (especially not before you've even scouted them).

The competition is worse. I've played every year in handball on very low and I'm about to promote to II also I'll past you in OTR by the end of the year(huge with sponsorships) Finally assuming you don't promote(you're currently 3rd) I'll be just as good as position if not better financially due to my OTR, promotion money(20 mil plus 7 mil final league ranking) and when it comes to our infrastructure we obviously just have different philosophies in that regard(my education center is lvl 1) and with my arena I just messed up with that in the beginning. Built medium stand ups when I should have built large ones so you did do better than me ther

P.S.

I forgot to also cite that you pay those fees regardless of whether the player sells or not. So a player listed for 2million with a 20% fee will cost a team $400,000 EVEN IF HE DOESN'T SELL.

Seriously. I can't believe that people are discounting the sales fees.

well that is why i didn't have the guts to sell for 2 million and instead i started with 200,000 as the fees is still 10,000

granted, the math says 2M fees is 100k

when it comes the time fees get 20%, people would likely be smart to start at low price so player gets a bid.

OTR is definitely important. But even more important in sponsorships are arena capacity and HR department. Both of which yours are still well behind mine.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say your handball team hasn't been managed well (you've done a very good job as far as I can tell). I'm saying that using the same philosophy in basketball, when the game mechanics have changed, might not be the best idea.

Just a final sidenote though:
As far as our infrastructure being in the same position in handball, that's just not accurate.

I've spent approximately 65 million more than you on facilities to date, and approximately 49 million more than you on the arena to date.

Even if I got ZERO prize money in the regular season or playoffs (which won't happen), and even if you got 30 million in prize/advancement money, you'd still be about 85 million behind me in construction. Even if your sponsorship deals net you 10-15 million more than me (which i also find unlikely), it would take you anywhere from 6-9 seasons to catch up to me (if everything else stayed constant).

Or they'd just not sell the player unless he were really good.

In handball, sometimes I sell players just because I don't want to pay their contract anymore, but I don't want to lose the money by terminating them early.

Even if they sell for only 10,000 it's a winning scenario over the alternative.

In basketball, you won't have those sort of sales anymore. Why would people waste 1 of their 3 "5% sales" on a cheap guy that might not sell for much?

More likely they'll soon realize that it makes the most sense to only sell players when they think they can get lots of money for them.

Right now, the market is what I would describe as ignorant. There's a lot of teams looking to make a quick buck, that haven't realized that prior strategies might not work as well in this sport.

why wouldn't they sell for goo amount? SA prospects will take a long time to get in the point they can start.

I can see those 1st season starters being sold for good amount of money at the end of this season and start of next.

Though to end. I don't value education center so I'll never upgrade that until I max everythig else so can't really count that. Medical center I feel similar because ppm always makes sure someone is injured. So I calculated around 41 mil ahead in facilities. And arena you're ahead by around 50. So I'm sitting on imma just say 45 Mil in the bank right now. So I could easily make up the facilities. So by next year you'll prob be up on my be around 30 million. Which I believe Won't be as hard to chip away as one would think. The 6-9 seasons number is absurd