主题: I.1

Happens to me all the time... btw is the guy you bought for something like 70m a pivot?

It only takes up to 2 seasons to recoup all of the money. After that, you make a ton of money, especially if you continue to invest. You need to make the initial investment though to get the earning potential. If you don't start to invest now, you will give up future seasons of earning a ton of money. While you might forgo having up to 2 seasons of a better training facility (which is about 2*.2*112=~44 lost OR for one level), you will get an extra $30 million to $40 million per season afterward,making it easy to improve other facilities and buy free agents as necessary,

Obviously, it's no good to spend on nothing but the arena, but spending everything on the facilities generally isn't the best strategy either. It might work well enough to spend only on facilities if you have one of the best team in the country already, but for most teams, it's safer to focus on earning money.

Of course, if you have the first level 13-15 sports academy, you can sell players for more money. With good training and regeneration facilities, you can also buy worthless players, train them, and sell them for a profit. This only works if you have the very best facilities though. I suppose it's not impossible to make more money while focusing on facilities, but it requires a lot of work in the market.

Must be end of the year... My first good pull of the season.. My first ever 326OR 4* across the board. Best pull I have ever had... Now to scout and see what additional flaws he has besides the 5/6. My 6th best player

You mean the one I bought for 67 mil? That's my goalie. And the 62 mil guy was a winger. My pivot was only 30 mil.

Sheesh. .. that's a lotta money being thrown around in that post. ..

Seriously...? You really don't see the point?

When I say that it pays for itself, I mean that after a certain amount of time, it's like you didn't even spend money on the arena. IE, that $81M sunk cost is gone. That can't be said about upgrading facilities (they never recoup their cost).

You could MAYYYBE say that about buying players (if you re-sell the player you bought for the same price or better, then you're essentially recouping your costs as well), but that is much less reliable/predictable.

So to me, it's a no brainer. Because it's the one investment you can make in this game that literally pays you to invest in it.

Yeah. The majority of that money came from player sales, I think.

In other news, started my first triple yesterday!

I don't know where you got 2 seasons, but calculating all of the expenses of a 2500 stand in, and comparing to what I would have (a 250 stand), I don't get a number that's really that close to that.

------------
Sunk Cost:
------------
- If you already have a 250 seat Large Stand Up, there's no sunk cost for keeping it. You've already absorbed the sunk cost.

- The sunk cost for a 2500 seat Triple (with maxed addons) is $81.5M + $28,575,000 = $110,075,000

------------
Expenses:
------------
- In a 250 seat Large Stand Up, you'd have a total season expense (including addons) of $431,200.

- In a 2500 seat Triple, you'd have a total season expense (including 10 addons) of $24,656,800.

So that's $24,225,600 in increased expenses each season.

------------
Income:
------------
This is where I imagine we differ in our assumptions... this is where you can be very aggressive or conservative.

- Assuming max attendance at every home game, you're selling tickets for 2250 more seats. 2250 x 29 games x 400 = $26,100,000 per season

*NOTE* I usually assume the minimum league home games, and max attendance for each game, since normally you won't have max attendance every game. Also, friendly games aren't even considered, so ticket revenue is likely pretty conservative here (even assuming every game sells out).

- Assuming a skybox/luxury box contract of $200,000 a week, that'd be income of $3.2M per season.

- Finally, assume an increase in your media contract of $17M for building the extra 2250 seats.

That's total season income of $26.1M + $3.2M + $17M = $46.3M

-----------------------------
Net Earnings and Conclusion:
-----------------------------

So each season, we spend $24,225,600 more in expenses, and gain $46.3M more in income. So our total increase in net earnings is $22,074,400.

So how long does it take that $22,074,400 to pay off the initial sunk cost of the stand and all it's addons?

$110,075,000 / $22,074,400 = 4.9865

So roughly 5 seasons.

That's a pretty conservative number. But pretty inclusive of all of the major pieces.

Not included are:
- friendly ticket revenues
The increase in these seems to be pretty negligible (at least for my team at this point anyways).

- increased souvenir sales
Again, I don't think this would make a very significant impact in the grand scheme, though i could be wrong here.

- reduction from maintenance facility / arena custodians
This is probably the biggest omitted factor. These guys can drastically reduce arena expenses, but they vary so much from team to team that i left it out in order to do a generalized analysis.

So yeah, i'd say that if you get a ton of souvenir sales (if you have popular players and max attendance), and have a good maintenance facility, you can probably recoup the sunk costs of the arena in 3 seasons, but I'd imagine a good (conservative) estimate for most people would be 4-5 seasons.

Oh gotcha lol.

And congrats on the triple!

The biggest factor is when you compare the numbers from my previous analysis with the sunk costs (and ongoing expenses) of increasing your facility level.

Comparing spending money that you'll never see returned, and huge expenses to an investment that not only pays for itself after a period of time, but then continues generating revenue after that gives insane results.

In a couple of levels (basically lvl 13 for most), facilities will have a daily expense higher than a 2500 triple stand with FULL addons. And they'll cost roughly the same to construct.

So that's the biggest difference. Because teams that build facilities and ignore arenas have the same expenses, but none of the added income. Whereas the people that build arenas, will have their sunk cost payed for after several seasons, and will continue to generate income while they focus on building their facilities.

I'm just waiting for the day that a lot of teams realize that it will be pretty much near impossible to sustain non-stop growth in facilities (especially TF) without putting some money into their arena. I anticipate it'll happen right around the time they get to lvl 13 or maybe if they're very lucky (and have a goose that lays golden eggs), lvl 14.

Well will see which strategy pays off at the end.

Mine will

(26+16*3/8+(4/2-4/8)+(5-10/8))*2,250/4,250*1,700,000 + 2,500/4,250*1,800,000*16 + 200,000*16 - (163,000-3,400)*112 - 3*112(5,715-150) - 23,000/7*37.25
33,525,000 + 16941176.47 + 3,200,000 - 17,875,200 - 1,869,840 - 122,392.86 = 33,798,743.61

81,500,000+8,571,000=90,071,000

90,071,000/37,523,743.61=2.66
2.66-3.32


It takes 2.66 seasons to pay back the cost of the arena (about 3.32 if you assume that only 80% of the tickets will be sold, however, I sold out my 80,000 seat stadium in soccer on the fifth day of the season in division II, though with good OTR). I suppose 3 is a decent conservative estimate.

Assumptions:
1) 26 league games
2) There are a total of 16*3 possible exhibition games. Each exhibition games tends to make about 1/4 of the profit of a league game, which is then divided between the two teams, giving you 1/8 the profit of a league game per exhibition game. This means that all the exhibition games together count the same as 6 league games.
3) 4 national cup games is a reasonable estimate. I believe that money is divided between the two teams. 4 exhibition games are lost to the national cup in this case.
4) 5 playoff games is a reasonable estimate (even if you lose, the placement games still count). 4 playoff games are guaranteed, and it is likely that at least 2 series will go to 3 games, 1 of which I am assuming is against a higher seed. In addition, 5/10 of the relegation games are home games. In this case, 10 exhibition games are lost to 10 playoff games.
5) I believe 37.25 is a reasonable estimate of the number of games played per season.
6) I made 1,700,000 with a full stadium. 2,250/4250 is the ratio attributable to the extra seats. This ratio also applies to the media sponsor attributable to the extra seats (though I am assuming a constant coefficient describing the relation of increase in seats to increase in profits which may or may not be reasonable).
7) I will take your assumption of 3,200,000 from VIP.
8) I only accounted for the increase in maintenance costs for the new stand.
9) I only accounted for the increase in maintenance costs for the accessories. I had 3 accessories in the old stand and am assuming only 3 (different) accessories in the new stand.
10) The biggest difference is that you are assuming 10 accessories. I am considering all but the VIP and press centers to be separate investments to be considered in a separate analysis. I only plan to build the press centers since they help with home games and the VIP center for the extra sponsor that is worth more (technically, I could exclude this as well).
11) I also accounted for what I estimate I will lose per season from having 7/8 the amount of accessories.
12) I am adopting your second two assumptions.

I had fixed the ratio for the ticket sales but not the ratio for the media sponsor. It should be 2.81 to 3.55 instead, but 3 is still a good estimate.

My calculations are 3 seasons from the time it start building. That means: I will start profiting right on time when i will need to big chunk of money to upgrade those level 14-15 facilities.

This season after paying all stadium expenses, i will be making 133M from Arena + Tickets. That is using a 90% season average sell. If i sell less obviously it reduces the revenue.

that is more than one full triple that i paid. Around 30M short. Next season i will be making profit. That if i am not already making as the arenas provided me revenue this season i am not even counted.