Teema: Open Letter to PPM Staff

This is an open letter to the PPM operators and project coordinators.

I found this sim and started in season 13 in hockey, and quickly realized that I'd never be able to compete because I started over a dozen seasons behind people in the upper divisions. I thought handball would be different since I was there when the ball dropped at the beginning of the first season. I'm completely deflated today, because I have realized that even though it's only the mid-way point of the 2nd season, I still have no chance in competing in the long run.

I have done almost everything possible to maximize my income since starting off in league IV.4 (I'm now in III.4 and hoping to advance to II.1 for season 3). I've logged in 163/166 days, I upgraded my arena to 2000 seats as quickly as I could, and I pretty much maxed out my friendlies to date. I even netted ~$5mil and ~$15mil in the first season from transfers and prize money (respectively).

Yet I'm looking at some of the completed/underway construction of managers in II.1 and I.1 and I'm just blown away. Even after accounting for sales they've made on the market, some of them have spent tens of millions more than I've even had access to.

One team in division 1 (I won't put them on the spot by naming it) has already spent roughly $28mil more than I have. I have no clue how much he has in his bank right now, but my bank is pretty low at the moment (single digit millions) so that might or might not actually skew the numbers even further. As we all know, the effects will compound over the next few seasons, and I imagine the gap will only get wider and wider (since you must first have money in order to make money).

It's just kind of crazy to me how skewed this game already is in favor of the teams in the upper divisions. I had hoped that sort of thing wouldn't happen until at least a few seasons had passed.

In my opinion, if advantages are given for placement in the upper divisions, everyone who signs up in the first season should be given an EQUAL chance of getting to the top division before such advantages are enacted. If that means that general and media sponsorship deals are standard at all division levels each season until season 4 or 5, then so be it. If that means that players drafted in the upper divisions are cheaper for a few seasons, so be it. All differences between divisions should be null for the first few years. Put everyone on the same playing field for as many seasons as it would take for someone from the lowest division to make it to the highest division (if they advance every year).

I remember reading somewhere on the site that PPM was great because any money spent was for aesthetics (team uniforms) and convenience (automatic practice), and not for any in-game advantage. But in my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong please) managers could pay credits to guarantee that they would start in the upper divisions at the beginning of handball. If an extra $28mil in 166 days is not an in-game advantage I don't know what is... This just seems very disingenuous and deceitful to be me, and I'm really unhappy.

It's ironic because I've actually sent money to PPM in the past (for the aesthetic and convenience reasons), but having realized that there's no true fairness in the system, how can I justify sending money in the future?

Here's hoping that someone will read this letter and that the launch of basketball will be different.

- Concerned participant

First yours facilities are on the same level as top teams in Handball, including myself.

Now you say that managers paid credits to end up in League 1, which is not true. I think like half of the teams only bid with credits. Others got their places based on the waiting list.

Should I be mad that Neil Armstrong first stepped on the Moon?

all managers that went to D1 paid. the ones that didnt were moderators/helpers.

However, the amount paid (at least for usa) was very low. anyone who bid the minimum got a place.

If D1 was cheap, bidding to D2 was incredible cheap.


Dont know what team spent soo much money, but I can speak for myself: i got extra money by selling players. that was key for me to get an extra edge and building a bit faster than others.

while it is true the D1 will soon have an edge over other divisions, i learned what matters most is not what division you start but what season you start.

Starting on first season should be enough to be competitive.

I should also note that ive used loans ever since halfway through the first season to leverage as much growth as possible out of my weekly sponsorship payments and ticket sales.

Without the 10mil in debt I currently have, my facilities wouldnt be where they currently are.

I wasn't familiar with the bidding or wait list system. I'd be interested to hear how they justify that as not paying for an in-game advantage.

it is some sort of advantage. but starting on d1 is not necessarily better. Teams that started on D2 and promoted to D1 made huge money and have great OTR.

If i recall it was 50 credits to D1 and 20 to D2.

And you cant focus on "one" team that made more. This team that made more finished 2nd on D1, plays on champion league, is among top OTR team in USA and spend wise.

Plus, that team made several loans, most notable the one to have a triple to finish before the deadline for sponsors offers

If I could give you some advice? I quit hockey after season 6 because of this. Deleted my team. I regret that.

I hope they do something about the cost of pro-packs... 4 sports will be costly. Close to 150USD a year. Perhaps by 3 get one free.

It's true I suppose that the champion league probably skews things (and there wasn't a good way for me to account for that).

But to me, the loans flush out in the wash (as I indicated above, I've nearly maxed out my debt leverage as well).

On an unrelated note, I don't believe that your OTR argument is all that compelling. Consider the following:

-> My record since inception (including playoffs and national cup matches, but excluding friendlies) is 77-2-17 or 156 points
-> My OTR is 244.59 at the moment (approx. 1.568 OTR/point).

-> Chicago Ruckus (who started in div. II and moved up to div. I for season 2) has a record of 64-4-35 or 132 points.
-> They have an OTR of 251.01 (approx. 1.902 OTR/point).

For argument's sake, I'll include friendlies, even though those don't have much effect on OTR at all.
-> My record for friendlies is 40-26
-> CR's record for friendlies is 29-1-22

I win out there as well, yet somehow my OTR is several points behind CR's.

If you further factor in the fact that near term OTR earnings are weighted more heavily (because of the season end % reduction), the results are even more disconnected with the theory that starting out lower is better for your OTR. Chicago Ruckus has a record of 17-1-18 this season in competitive matches, while I have earned a record of 25-1-7.

In a game where everyone started out on equal footing and anyone has an equal chance to beat anyone (I beat Hanover Fisters in a competitive match in season 1), I find it hard to see how being in a lower league provides much OTR advantage at all, since teams clearly gain more OTR for winning at higher levels.

If this were season 5, and a team had zero chance of winning at all in div.1, but could possibly sweep div. 2 or 3, then it'd be another story completely... but I just don't think the assertion holds at this point in time.

Just my $0.02.

P.S. I don't want this thread to seem overly knit-picky, I really just wanted to spur some real discussion here about some of these mechanics. I really do believe that ppm should just have a massive round robin of sorts for the first 2-3 seasons. Let people play their way into the top divisions while everyone is on equal footing. I don't think that's so crazy an idea...

Yeah, at the very least I'd want to keep my team going if not for any reason other than possibly supporting the youth national teams.

I was blown away that Irresistible Force quit hockey after 14 seasons. Even if you only log in once per week to do your youth pulls and your team gradually falls to the 2nd or 3rd or 4th divisions, at least you're supporting the national team. That's something.

Such a shame.

I actually proposed something about that in the "general->suggestions" forum a week or so ago about a possible solution to that.

No response...

I actually find myself studying forex markets because of this sim. The exchange rates are absolutely killer (at least we aren't Brazilian I guess).

Your facilities are still pretty good, but the best teams did get as much as about $40 million more (over the course of an entire season) than the lowest numbers posted in the sponsorship thread. There should be a reward for success, but starting out in a higher league and getting lucky pulls from a sports academy that likely isn't better than average isn't so impressive - I do think that they should have waited a few seasons before rolling out such a large advantage/reward (and I'm saying this as about the 3rd richest team in the country, possibly slightly less rich than a few additional teams that have earned a lot on the market).

They'll price the sports packs at the price that maximizes their profits. There would be no point to cutting prices to 3/4 of the current price per sport once the 4th develops if the number of customers wouldn't increase (which could become a problem for the development of future sports other than perhaps sports like baseball which might draw a lot of new customers in certain countries).

I didn't start in Hockey until the end of season 5, and I now have a tea good enough to win its way into (or back into) I.1 and win a respectable number of games while there, and I will have one of the best arenas in the country by the end of this season. I didn't start in soccer until the end of season 2, and that team has also earned its way into I.1 and has a good chance of returning next year (I would consider it about 1 year behind my hockey team in development) - granted that I benefitted from the folding of quite a few teams, but that is natural in this sort of game.

I mapped out my expenses and upgrades for handball for the first 7 seasons. What I did not expect was such horrible pulls from the SA. I was banking on selling players through out the season to build up my player purchase fund... Oh well. So I am adjusting for possible D2 and work my way back to D1. I will have SA11,HR11,TR11,RF11 all in play by the end on S3. Then I am in the range of maxed out triples or upgrades to facilities. But the core will be one of the top USA teams for training average players

Hockey and football we are in a good spot competing with players who started 2 to 4 seasons before us as we can compete with UFA's while we catch up in infrastructure. That is lower middle of the pack D2. A few years to go before we can compete with the top tier D2 teams.

I agree on the cash differences in handball. They should have just started them all equal then just increased them by a % starting at the end of season 3 for the top divisions.

i was replying and lost energy and lost a huge reply

so let me try again ....

OTR .... winning a match on D1 earn more than lower division. That is my believe, anyways. I earn 4.5-4.6 per league win.

I do not agree with that. I think OTR should only be based on opponent team's strength regardless of division/league.

Bonus:
Higher divisions earn more money than lower. I have been always against that. I think it should be fair to have the bonus based on league average OTR ONLY regardless of level.

That would put, for example, a D3 league earning about the same as D1 as long as they never lost a team during the season causing lowering the average. But fact is: lower divisions always lose teams and will always earn less money for that

Competitiveness
Top 2 D1 teams play league, national and champions league. Champions is a "long" one causing fatigue to players. Managers playing those would likely have to have more quality players or else will have energy issues coming playoffs.

Bonus
Teams on D2 or lower get promotion bonus. D1 teams dont have this option. Thus, extra sponsor money for qualifying to champions is fair enough.


Like I mentioned on private message, the key is to start on season 1. The division you start matters but an active manager could manage to quickly promote from D4/3 to D2

5 teams were promoted to D1 this season. The fact that all non playoff teams play for relegation make it easier to promote than the soccer/hockey models. And I really like that.

My biggest complain to PPM is that higher divisions will always earn more than lower no matter what, even if somehow they had division 3 quality teams in there.

I do think that bonus/sponsor should heavily rely on league average OTR rather than the league level.

With that, a D3 league could potentially earn as much money as D1 as long as they dont lose teams during the season.

That sounds reasonable to me.