Asunto: Arena

How is your opinion to facilities over arena? Does you use your income on the facilities or the arena? Or both?

I cranked out 2000 seats last season, all this season's cash is going to facilities. Will work on the rink next season likely.

I did almost the same, and then I bought scoring board.. So I will probably go for facilities the rest of this season. And maybe start building some seats next season.

The payoff for seats isn't that effective unless you consider it long-term... really long term

Well, I have the same opinion.. So I rather wait and then upgrade the seats, when I can't earn enough money to pay the daily payments..

Facilities over Arena for me. In part because I'm the only team with a name in my division which doesn't help attendance. I plan to add 3 medium stand ups in time for the play-offs as those games seem to sell out. It should also increase my TV contract for next season and give me a decent basis for a more active division III.

After that? If I need to expand I'll likely upgrade the 4 remaining smalls into large stand ups. Stands get so much more expensive while giving minimal max capacity boosts that it's hard to justify. Especially when it means you're short on cash to upgrade the core facilities.

A bit of early morning crude math rambling, assuming that you sell out your stand for competitive games.

The extra daily upkeep for a small with seats compared to a large stand up for a whole season is 739.200. The extra capacity is 50, which will likely only be used up for competitive games. Let's put that at 45 (38 league plus some cup and play-off games). That extra 50 capacity gives you 900.000 on those games. Giving you a 160.800 profit for the season.

Now the construction cost is an extra 3.3m for the small with seats. Say you want that investment to be earned back in 2 seasons so that you can actually make a profit in the 3rd. Taking the above 160.800 into account that's 2.978.400 to be earned from increased attendance for friendlies. You'll play about 60 friendlies a year, say you actually manage to get all those scheduled at home. In order to get that 2.9m back at half income ticket price you'll need an average increase of 124,10 in attendance per game.

The only saving grace is that you get 50% back when demolishing for your next upgrade. So if you do get those above figures you'll have made a 2.5m profit at the end of your 2nd season which will be cashed in when you upgrade.

The figures for the other two with seats, same principle as above. Meaning your profit at the end of season 2 is the amount you get back on demolishing.

Large stand up vs medium with seats:
Season profit: 1.740.800
Average friendly attendance increase needed: 200,77

Large stand up vs large with seats:
Season profit: 2.644.800
Average friendly attendance increase needed: 458,77

Well... I have been sourcing around at the pages to check where people were in their upgradings. A lot of people are have like level 10 under construction at almost 7 out of 10 in 1. divisions all over the world...

But personally I have like 2000 spots, and when im selling out for five games in a row.. I will upgrade my stadium, until that's happen I won't do anything else, then upgrade facilities..

Arena cost effectiveness is about 3 components. The 1st is attendance obviously. Closer to the top and good OTR plus friendlies the simple formula. The second is TV deal. This is directly tied to the arena build and should run close to 40-50% of the initial cost with you recieving 50% back on demolision as you mentioned. The third you did not mention is maintainance. Raising this facility will cut your daily expenses for both arena and facilities. You'll find maintanance facility and custodians very valuable going forward as we play more seasons and grow the size of facilities and arena both. Good custodians are gems!!!

Yeah, not sure on the monetary effect of the Arena on TV deals. 40-50% seems high. Looks like there's a much wider variety of arena builds by the end of this season. Hopefully they'll post up their offers so we can get a feel for their influence.

What savings % do you get with your current level/staff?

I've been ignoring maintenance until now. Partly because I have enough trouble financing my core facility upgrades. And the other is that this is the first positive post I've seen on maintenance, the few posts I have seen on the subject were by disappointed people.

To answer the 1st part guys were seeing 6 mil plus with arenas around 1600 to 2000 capacity. canucks got 6 plus on his arena which has 8 large stands that cost 13.6 mil to build. Thus my suggestion of 40-50% I hit 50% plus on mine for TV deal but mostly middle stands.

My maintance observations come from BETA experience. I've just started moving Maintanance facility as it starts effeciently lowering cost as you get beyond level 7/8. You'll also find 3 seasons from now custodians will be some of the most prized staff in the game. The financial dynamics in PPM will eventually slow sponsor money to a crawl season over season barring changes. The move to 30% reduction in OTR on the season update is very significant though most don't realize it yet. OTR has a huge effect on the sponsor deal IMO. Consider that a good team playing division II needs about 20 league wins to recover the OTR they lost on the update growth will trickle to a crawl in a few more season. Better competition combined with OTR gain not being finite and you'll see folks struggling to gain what they lost over an entire season. Thus Maintance becomes very important in lowering daily fixed expenses such as facility and arena. Then Custodians become king. The huge increases season after season in sponsor deals will slow dramatically as OTR net growth slows season over season.

It's very true at low levels maintance isn't effecient or significantly effective. Get facilties to level 9 and your looking at 16K a day if I remember correctly. Check guide for actual cost per day. The arena is even bigger as a daily cost issue. Fixed ticket prices combined with high initial costs for multi function sections and HUGE daily expenses make maintance very important. We do need to see skybox revenue to know the fiscal practicality of building these sections. My own opinion is you jump from large stands to large with seats but that might change depending on how skybox revenue is distributed.

I only get 4.6 mill. sponsor and then 0,5 mill. in tv..

If you're going to build up anything at your Arena, you will loose money at the tv deal because you not have that much seats..

Your incorrect on the TV deal. The way the game is set up you recoop your cost of building through the TV offer and seats cover daily expenses as a general rule. I recieved a 5.1 mil TV deal. I had 1 large stand and 7 medium stands. This cost me less than 5 mil to build. I believe the key to the TV offer is the level of the stands and not as much the seating. There is also no question that the extra seats gained on upgrades barely cover the extra daily expenses without the influence of maintanance facility and custodian. Because ticket prices are fixed you must cut expenses. This is just basic accounting 101 to generate more profit.

Interesting. I got 1m on mine, my stadium cost is 1.15m. In that sense mine appears decent. But then when you compare it with my General sponsor deal, it is about 5% off that. While for you and Canucks it seems to be about 10%. That's quite the difference, which can be attributed to the difference in arena. The guide mentions arena capacity, not level of stands, as the only extra factor in TV deals compared to General deals.

You're not far off, 16.5k a day for level 9. That does seem like the time to build up maintenance. Not looking forward to the arena expenses either.
The guy I play friendlies with has built a scoreboard. He has a slight OTR lead over me, our arena capacity is similar. I have the one medium stand up to give me 750, he has 800 on 8 small stand ups. Looking at the last 4 games we've played I had the larger home crowd. Not what you want to see from a 10m investment and 20k daily.

I had a similar view on the arena build just because the capacity upgrades didn't seem worth it to me unless you made big jumps. Skybox will be interesting. I wonder if the capacity of the stand will be an influence i.e. will a skybox built in a 400 seat single floor give as much revenue as one built in a 800 seat floor. Also will income be suspended while upgrading the 400 seat's capacity?

The 30% OTR is significant for the reasons you mentioned. It will especially hurt the teams outside of the top 8. Not only is their sponsorship already a fair bit lower because of the standings they're also the ones who have the lowest OTR gain during the season. They might well find themselves unable to recoup the lost OTR, further lowering their sponsorship.

However I expect them to tinker with the % over the coming seasons. Adjusting it to better reflect what's happening in the game. I think the reason it was increased is because some teams, like yours and Rapid Vitesse (Dutch team that won the National Cup while being in Div IV, he's the 3rd ranked Dutch team in OTR) are marching their way through lower divisions and into the top divisions while racking up OTR along the way. In addition to the teams playing in the international cups gaining a lot of OTR as well.

If the guide mentions capacity only then you need to go large stand up, then large seats and so on for the extra capacity. They likely will tinker with the percentage down the road. In a season or 2 guys getting 150 mil will be screaming cash poor with the upper end costs to build and mantain.

That wasn't what I ment. I ment, when your getting the TV-offer, if your building any stands or seats at your arena and for an example only have like 1400 spots, you will get less than if you have like 2000 spots when the offer is coming.